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Post by Paper Crane Song on Jun 11, 2017 1:31:10 GMT -5
Yeah agreed. Because sometimes the A-Team are really clever and resourceful without any violence whatsoever. We just watched Curtain Call last night, and there was some ingenious stuff going on there. But with this episode... it just seemed an odd message to send out.
Yeah these little moments really make the show for me! I love how they're all reacting to each other and acting even when they don't have lines to say.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jun 11, 2017 19:41:21 GMT -5
What do you think about Karl in this episode?
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Post by Paper Crane Song on Jun 12, 2017 7:10:23 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Karl.... i feel like a lot of the time, writers portray christians as a bit naive and a little bit lacking in critical thinking, and it becomes a trope. I think Karl definitely falls into this category.
As a Christian myself, i think it's important to work out a theology of activism and non-pacifism, depending on whatever context you're in. Like Dietrich Bonhoeffer did with the Nazis and participating in the assassination plot of Hitler. And to work through what it means to be in the world but not of the world, like, how do you resolve that tension? It's different for each person, and it's different in every context - which is why i find characters like Karl and the whole 'religious trope' a bit lazy on behalf of the writers.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jun 12, 2017 20:18:22 GMT -5
I've written before how I feel Karl comes off as being "violent internally." By this, I mean that he does not seem filled with peace which I think should characterize pacifists. He does not seem that interested in loving his enemies, in my opinion.
I'm also a Christian, and I've struggled with what Dietrich Bonhoeffer did. I don't know what I would have done in his situation. We have to pray, read God's word, and strive to obey Him, and yes, I also think that will look different for different people in different contexts.
I wish the character of Eric had been more explored....if he was a soldier in 'Nam, then I wonder if that experience is what led him to become a pacifist or what.
While Karl may be sort of a trope, I do think the addition of the lay minister into the mix was a good one. Actually, to me, he perhaps more than any of the other guest stars seemed to demonstrate true Christian love. He offered the pacifists the use of the church building, he stood up a bit to the bad guys, but he did not seem hateful towards them, even though he did not approve of what they were doing. I wish he had been more involved in the episode even than he was.
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Post by Paper Crane Song on Jun 14, 2017 2:42:09 GMT -5
I've written before how I feel Karl comes off as being "violent internally." By this, I mean that he does not seem filled with peace which I think should characterize pacifists. He does not seem that interested in loving his enemies, in my opinion. Ooh yes that's a great phrase! He was quite scary. Not the kind of guy I'd like to be around.
I'm also a Christian, and I've struggled with what Dietrich Bonhoeffer did. I don't know what I would have done in his situation. We have to pray, read God's word, and strive to obey Him, and yes, I also think that will look different for different people in different contexts. Yup, agree. I'd love to get your thoughts about being a Christian and fanfic, if that's ok. Maybe I'll PM you about it. I wish the character of Eric had been more explored....if he was a soldier in 'Nam, then I wonder if that experience is what led him to become a pacifist or what. Yeah. I like how Eric dressed contextually when he was on the boardwalk, blending in, but then when he was back in his own society he dressed kind of...rustic. I thought he said his friends were in 'Nam and told him of Hannibal's legendary status, not him specifically, but maybe i missed it that bit. While Karl may be sort of a trope, I do think the addition of the lay minister into the mix was a good one. Actually, to me, he perhaps more than any of the other guest stars seemed to demonstrate true Christian love. He offered the pacifists the use of the church building, he stood up a bit to the bad guys, but he did not seem hateful towards them, even though he did not approve of what they were doing. I wish he had been more involved in the episode even than he was. Actually yes you're right, the lay minister did seem a bit more switched on and less scary and more normal but yet staying true to his faith and standing up to social injustice. The kind of guy I'd want to introduce to my friends. Karl... not so much.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jun 14, 2017 18:55:14 GMT -5
It's fine to PM me about anything you want to.
Hmm....now I'm not sure about Eric, either. In my head, I guess I thought he himself had been in Vietnam. If it was friends of his, then I wonder in what context they brought up the A-Team. And I also wonder if he was a pacifist then, if his friends gave him a hard time about not going off to fight in the war.
Yeah, I'm not rushing off to join Karl living the pacifist life. I think I'd rather follow the lay minister! (I don't know his name, but I think he did have one.) Wonder what happened to the regular minister. Maybe he also stood up to the bad guys and got run out of town or something?
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jun 28, 2018 22:01:58 GMT -5
They did initially try to use non-violent tactics. I think that was neat for them to try that.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 5, 2018 8:18:50 GMT -5
I agree that Hannibal tried and just failed. You can't wave the peace sign and stop guns.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 5, 2018 21:11:32 GMT -5
But it would have been kind of neat to see them defeat the bad guys using purely non-violent tactics.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 6, 2018 8:28:49 GMT -5
But it would have been kind of neat to see them defeat the bad guys using purely non-violent tactics. Totally agree. I think that would have made the series that much stronger and shown the guys to be more versatile. Almost like how they beat the East Germans in QUARTERBACK SNEAK.
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Post by hasford1978 on Apr 27, 2020 19:05:16 GMT -5
Could anyone here post a decent screencap of Face and Murdock from this episode from a particular scene please? The scene I'm thinking of is where the team are talking/meeting their newest client, Face is wearing a cream jumper with a white suit jacket looking smart as always
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Post by hasford1978 on Jun 1, 2020 4:53:15 GMT -5
I've just started watching this one again, seen it numerous times so i probably know this word for word 😁i like how the client doesn't believe in violence so the guys have to adapt there ways slightly to please him.. Of course this doesn't quite work out because the guys are fired and as Hannibal said 'we were fired, so we work for us now, we will go back and show Kyle and his sleeze balls abit of A Team religion' 😎 Always loved that line from Smith
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Post by Eclipse139 on Jul 24, 2020 11:22:09 GMT -5
Rewatched this one yesterday - almost at the end of S2 already! I've seen this one a few times before so it was all quite familiar - although it's not near the top of my favourites list, I do like it. The message of non-violence does seem to get lost in the plot by the end, which is a shame - I know you've already discussed this! It starts really well, with the team doing their best to avoid using force and I really love Hannibal's speech to Karl about having weapons in the van: "If you say we can't keep these that's the same as me saying you have to change your life because of what I believe in." Unfortunately in the end the weapons get used, but it would have been nice to see the team doing something more symbolic to demonstrate they don't necessarily enjoy violence, but that they're forced to fight and use guns because it's how the bad guys operate. It was disappointing to see Eric (Sam Jones! And it was his real voice and everything! ) didn't stand up for the team and their methods - in fact he didn't really do anything at all apart from hire them in the first place. Eric was part of the community and presumably held those same beliefs, but he also admired the team's reputation. He could have tried to act as a mediator between the two parties. I loved BA with Olie - it's always great to see him working with children. It was also really good to see Face helping Olie - I don't really think of Face being comfortable around kids, but that's probably just because we don't really see it. The only other example I can think of is that brief moment on the yacht with the little girl in BAD TIME ON THE BORDER. Face was overpowered a little too easily when Olie was kidnapped though, I thought, but it was good to see Hannibal running over to make sure he was OK. Of course BA and Murdock get overpowered even more easily than Face. You do tend to think of BA as being fairly indestructible so it was odd, but then you don't actually see it happen - you just hear a 'punch' sound effect - so we could conclude that he was hit with something really heavy, not just a fist. Olie's desperation to wake them up is done really well and BA comes round realistically enough although Murdock just seems to suddenly stand up by himself - I've often wondered if Dwight didn't realise he would be in the shot at the moment and the focus would just be on BA and Olie? This ep has one of my favourite tag scenes - in the van where Hannibal is giving his psychology lesson and Murdock's lapping it up, but all Face wants to do is get out of there (before Decker shows up) and get something to eat! "Am I the only one who's hungry here?"
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 25, 2020 21:22:39 GMT -5
I don't know that I've thought much about Eric's role in this episode. It's been quite a while since I watched it, so I can't really remember that much about Eric other than him hiring the team. Seems like there could have been more done to flesh out his character - I wonder why he joined up with the pacifists and when and how?
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Nov 22, 2020 11:38:04 GMT -5
Everyone begged to watch another one. This was next. Everyone groaned. The kids hated the description and my wife hates the episode. We watched it anyway because I'm a purist. The religious angle in this one is less interesting than the one in JAMESTOWN, but I did like the idea of non-violence. Face and Murdock were surprising in not wanting to do it. Well, maybe less Face than Murdock. I like the non-violent ways they try and how Hannibal tells the main guy that this is what they wanted and how they will build the meeting house. They do a great job, although I feel for poor Face and the nails. I like his procurement argument and even my wife was saying how he usually doesn't build anything useful...just helps get things and maybe tightens with a screwdriver. The kid and B.A. were fun together, especially with the whole not knowing what the tools are. Face and Murdock do a fun, if similar, scheme to DIAMONDS where they confiscate equipment. Geoffrey Lewis is a great bad guy. Taking the kid was surprising, but at least they didn't beat him up and leave him for dead too. I rolled my eyes when Olie passed out from smoke inhalation...from an OPEN AIR fire. But it set up the scene with the doctor and them getting fired nicely. I like how they are in it for them now and they defend it. Although it felt anti-climactic. The tag scene was okay, but the fun part was B.A. and the pecans. Murdock's obsession was okay, but not integral to anything in the episode for me. I like his shirt better. Overall, not the best episode, but I think it was a neat juxtaposition of the team's methods versus a pacifist. Although for a pacifist, the main guy sure does argue and be quick to anger a lot.
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