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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 7:45:18 GMT -5
Original air date: January 30, 1983
Written by: Stephen Cannell
A desperate father calls for the ATeam to rescue his daughter. They succeed, but get captured by the kidnappers, a fanatic religious community. They decide that the ATeam shall die in a hunt, where the team is the prey
Sidney's Rating Scale: I give this an 8 (excellent) Dirk does such an incredible job owning the role of Face that you forget all about Tim. Even though it is his first episode, you can tell right away he has great chemistry with the rest of the team. I love Dirks reactions to Hannibal ( the eye rolling and exasperation ) as opposed to Tim. But you can definitely tell that Murdocks part was added after the fact ( but thank goodness the powers that be decided to keep Murdock). Murdock is not in it much and is separated from the team for nearly all of it
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Aug 14, 2016 21:06:53 GMT -5
I'm following Sidney's advice....making a question to get this thread rolling....How do you think Martin James got to be this maniacal cult leader? What was his history before he did this?
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Aug 14, 2016 21:33:48 GMT -5
Just finished this one. Using the Sidney Scale, I give this one a 9. I took one point off because I think the thing about how they have to "help Amy" through the fear of death thing is a bit corny (and they don't really do anything anyway there to help her, it seems to me).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2016 6:22:29 GMT -5
Amy - You offered up the same question I was going to if no one posted anything by this evening ( great minds thinking alike ) I too was wondering what James's motivation was - was he manipulating the kids to get money from the families? Was it just a power trip for him? I think he actually believed that he was this chosen person, yes it was about power too but I think he was driven by mental illness more than a manipulative reason ( like blackmailing money or something ) I think he believed he had these powers and gifts - that he had dreams and visions and in a sick way he was doing God's work. At the end he looked so shocked that things fell apart - not like someone angry that their scam was discovered and thwarted but someone disappointed that God had let him down. Which to me makes him an even more dangerous person because he really thought he was doing the right thing. And sadly there are so many people searching for answers, searching for peace, searching for anything to make them feel whole that it is not hard for these delusional people to get followers.
I also hate the part where they have to talk Amy through accepting death - like you said, it is so corny. Although it did give some insight into the team and how they handle facing death on their missions - I agree it really would have done nothing to help Amy. Not sure how everyone holding hands will help her just accept death.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Aug 15, 2016 21:11:42 GMT -5
I didn't think about him possibly getting rich somehow off the kids' families. I feel like it was more of a power trip for him, especially when he starts talking about how he was the god of this world, created in his own image (or something like this). Initially, he may have started off as a sincere minister or something, but somewhere along the way, I think he got warped. I also think it is possible he actually was mentally ill or on drugs (like BA thought). You mentioning about the dreams has a good point, too, since he also discussed more than once that thing about how he had stopped having dreams. So maybe he really did believe God had spoken to him at some time in dreams in the past. I agree that he looked shocked at the end, and I even thought he looked sad. But not the kind of sadness of someone who is afraid of going to jail or of having been caught....a different kind of sadness somehow. It even makes me feel kind of sorry for him, that he was so delusional.
The other weird thing with Amy is that it seemed that she was in just as much danger of being killed when they were captured by those guys in Mexico and she seemed to handle that just fine. But maybe that was because she was more focused on getting Al rescued or something?
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Aug 16, 2016 6:42:47 GMT -5
I never thought Martin James was after money, or young girls, or anything like that. I guess I always just assumed he just believed he really was some sort of prophet. I assumed it was drugs, I guess. I don't know. I don't tend to think too deeply about characters other than the Team.
Does anyone know the real story? Of Jonestown? Was it ever disclosed if that was a big scam? Or was that just drugs or mental health issues as well?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 6:57:29 GMT -5
yes, the Amy/afraid of death thing was just off for me - you are right, she did not seem afraid in Mexico and never again in any other episode either. I think the writers were using Amy not to highlight her fear but as a way for the guys to explain how they handle facing near death experiences all the time. It did give some insight into how they are able to risk their lives for others.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 6:59:30 GMT -5
here is something else from the episode - I really felt sorry for the guy that Murdock scammed the dynamite from - he was so worried about getting in trouble. I don't know why Murdock couldn't have just signed the form for him ( he could have used a fake name) I wonder if that guy got fired or fined because of it. I wonder how many people throughout the series the team caused to lose their jobs because of scams they pulled.
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on Aug 16, 2016 16:32:54 GMT -5
Well, the Amy thing and the Surrender scene both served the same purpose storytelling-wise. That they're not invincible. It's perhaps something they wanted to do after the pilot.
It's corny, definitely, but from a writing point I find it okay. It's a more acceptable break from the "show, don't tell" principle than the voiceover at the start. They could have spent 2-3 minutes acting out the premise.
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Aug 16, 2016 17:40:02 GMT -5
Ugh. SO AGREED. The voiceover was awful. SOOOOO glad that didn't continue past this episode.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -5
I never thought Martin James was after money, or young girls, or anything like that. I guess I always just assumed he just believed he really was some sort of prophet. I assumed it was drugs, I guess. I don't know. I don't tend to think too deeply about characters other than the Team. Does anyone know the real story? Of Jonestown? Was it ever disclosed if that was a big scam? Or was that just drugs or mental health issues as well? Jim Jones started as a self - ordained preacher ( red flag there) in the 1950's. He believed in a communist way of life and his church was racially integrated ( a rarity in that day and in Indiana where he started). He eventually moved to San Francisco and his church grew and did have many social programs, like feeding the poor, drug treatment and giving free legal advice. But word got to Jim that some newspapers were planning on running an expose on him. Former members talking about how they were expected to sell or give all their possessions to Jones and stories of abuse ( physical and sexual ). So Jim moved his church to Guyana. There from just the small handful of people that survived the mass suicide/murder, they say that Jones started to lose his mental health and was doing drugs. This is a very brief synopsis of the Jonestown story. But in the case of Jim Jones it sounds like it was mental illness , drugs and wanting to be in control and in power. Right from the beginning - he being a "self -ordained " minister shows that he didn't want to be accountable to anyone else or let someone dictate what he could do or not do. Basically creating his own church and religion made him the god of it
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Aug 16, 2016 19:56:43 GMT -5
here is something else from the episode - I really felt sorry for the guy that Murdock scammed the dynamite from - he was so worried about getting in trouble. I don't know why Murdock couldn't have just signed the form for him ( he could have used a fake name) I wonder if that guy got fired or fined because of it. I wonder how many people throughout the series the team caused to lose their jobs because of scams they pulled. Although I think that is actually a pretty funny scam, you're right that the guy likely would have been fired over the whole thing. Rats....will that ruin the scam for mem from now on? Nah....the guy in DIAMONDS N DUST also likely got fired, right? Oh, so many people may have lost their livelihoods all because of A-Team scams.....can we just pretend that in the A-TEAM universe, no innocent person ever loses their job because of one of the team's scans?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 6:45:04 GMT -5
anything is possible in the ATeam universe - also what about the poor guys store that they destroyed in the beginning rescuing Sheila. The fight between Hannibal and Face might have been fake but they did real damage. I wonder if they ever went back and made restitution with the shop owner. I am assuming they got paid well for this job so maybe store repair is included in their payment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2016 10:56:31 GMT -5
I never thought Martin James was after money, or young girls, or anything like that. I guess I always just assumed he just believed he really was some sort of prophet. I assumed it was drugs, I guess. I don't know. I don't tend to think too deeply about characters other than the Team. Does anyone know the real story? Of Jonestown? Was it ever disclosed if that was a big scam? Or was that just drugs or mental health issues as well? Jim Jones started as a self - ordained preacher ( red flag there) in the 1950's. He believed in a communist way of life and his church was racially integrated ( a rarity in that day and in Indiana where he started). He eventually moved to San Francisco and his church grew and did have many social programs, like feeding the poor, drug treatment and giving free legal advice. But word got to Jim that some newspapers were planning on running an expose on him. Former members talking about how they were expected to sell or give all their possessions to Jones and stories of abuse ( physical and sexual ). So Jim moved his church to Guyana. There from just the small handful of people that survived the mass suicide/murder, they say that Jones started to lose his mental health and was doing drugs. This is a very brief synopsis of the Jonestown story. But in the case of Jim Jones it sounds like it was mental illness , drugs and wanting to be in control and in power. Right from the beginning - he being a "self -ordained " minister shows that he didn't want to be accountable to anyone else or let someone dictate what he could do or not do. Basically creating his own church and religion made him the god of it Right there I just learned more about Jonestown than I ever knew!
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Aug 17, 2016 12:47:55 GMT -5
Anyone else think Sheila was just stunning? Really. What a beautiful actress.
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