The Bells of St. Mary's - Episode 47

[amyk]

Watched this one tonight. My Sidney scale score for it is a 6. Does anyone know if there is an extra portion of a scene in the closing credits that we didn't actually see in the episode? When they are showing BA, Murdock, and Face in the scene where they were originally meeting the Bells....at the end, I think maybe both BA and Murdock are laughing but I don't know that this happened in the actual episode.

Also, that "meet the client" scene is a bit strange in the episode because Charlotte had presumably already met BA....but then it is like she is saying "hi" to him for the first time in that scene.

I do enjoy Murdock getting so choked up at the end about the "win one for the Gipper" story. This scene also gives some evidence that Murdock is not exactly sane....I don't get the feeling that he does what he did just to aggravate BA or anything like that. It seemed that he momentarily did lapse into some other reality and was compelled to really "win one for the Gipper."

[sidney]

I don't like this episode much.
I think Hannibal allowing them to have at the girls at the end of the episode is awful. They were no longer clients, so they were free game at that point. Hannibal was more than twice their age. Was I supposed to respect his self-control waiting until they were no longer clients to use the ladies? He wasn't interested in a relationship with them. He just wanted to use them.

I know, I know... amyk, you always say the girls are always eager participants in the show. But these girls are young, the team rescued them and they were vulnerable. I don't think immediately after the job is done opens the girls up for playing with.

I don't see them being a big act in the 80s. Maybe in the 50s or 60s. But in the 80s, a group like that wouldn't have done well. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I see music at the time to be big hair and make up and glitter. Like Boy George or Rick James in later episodes. That was 80s music.

[amyk]

I kind of thought they were supposed to be a bit like the Pointer Sisters except different ethnicities and not biological sisters. That's the style that their music reminded me of a bit.

Well, I don't think either the guys or the girls should just be playing with one another. I'm not so sure the girls are so naive and innocent. If they are big stars, they hold power over others and probably have numerous male fans that they could be taking advantage of. In addition, coming to the door wearing only a towel after just stepping out of the shower seemed rather unnecessary. (This does not mean the men are also not responsible to restrain themselves, but I'm just saying that to me, in this episode, the "coming on" to each other seemed to go both ways.) However, you do have a point that perhaps the girls feel so grateful to the team and are now idolizing the team.

In any case, I do think that it would probably be a good "rule" for the team to not "mess around" with clients before, during, or in the immediate aftermath of a case. Until they actually clear their names and are able to settle down somewhere and be serious about a committed relationship, then I think they just need to live celibate lives, although I don't know that any of them other than B.A. would necessarily be able to do that.

[sidney]

She answered the door in a towel? She must be asking for it then! She must be a real 'loose' woman.
(Women can wear whatever, and they are not necessarily asking to be hit on by men.)

I knew you would argue that they weren't naive and innocent. You always do.

[HoudiniDerek]

Jul 25, 2017 17:16:25 GMT -5 amyk said:

I kind of thought they were supposed to be a bit like the Pointer Sisters except different ethnicities and not biological sisters. That's the style that their music reminded me of a bit.

Well, I don't think either the guys or the girls should just be playing with one another. I'm not so sure the girls are so naive and innocent. If they are big stars, they hold power over others and probably have numerous male fans that they could be taking advantage of. In addition, coming to the door wearing only a towel after just stepping out of the shower seemed rather unnecessary. (This does not mean the men are also not responsible to restrain themselves, but I'm just saying that to me, in this episode, the "coming on" to each other seemed to go both ways.) However, you do have a point that perhaps the girls feel so grateful to the team and are now idolizing the team.

In any case, I do think that it would probably be a good "rule" for the team to not "mess around" with clients before, during, or in the immediate aftermath of a case. Until they actually clear their names and are able to settle down somewhere and be serious about a committed relationship, then I think they just need to live celibate lives, although I don't know that any of them other than B.A. would necessarily be able to do that.

I agree here.

The women are no strangers to stardom and they have to know that their sex appeal can work to their advantage. It was not just the team that was hot under the collar during some of the scenes as the women actively hit on them.

In fact, this is probably one of the episodes where I'm okay with them being involved with clients. After all, everyone knew the score going into it and at the end, so no one should have been hurt by the result.

[sidney]

And I completely disagree.
What they wear and their job does not dictate their level of innocence or lack thereof.
The fact that they giggled and called the guys cute does not warrant them as actively hitting on them or hot under the collar.
I'll rewatch the episode to make sure I'm not missing anything, but from what I remember, they were young, they were scared, and they thought the guys were cute.

It was our guys making things sexual. It was even our guys talking about having to juggle eggs to try to control their libidos.

Yes, the one answered the door in the towel, but I never found their behaviour or dress particularly provocative. The towel was she was honestly interrupted while she was in the shower. I had to once chase my kitten in a towel. He got out and I was so scared that he'd be hurt or lost, that I honest to goodness had to chase him outside and I was only wearing a towel. Does that mean I'm being provocative to any man that happened to be there?

[sidney]

On a different note, I never realized Face went to school with them. Would that mean they were in their late 30s then? Or is iTunes wrong about that?

[sidney]

The synopsis says there was no money to get.
I doubt they were very famous and used to using men to get what they want, as you mentioned, amyk. I don't think they had any power at all.

Murdock just told Hannibal that 'these are true leader, unlike any leaders that I've been exposed to.' Isn't Hannibal his leader? Wasn't Hannibal his colonel?

[sidney]

Face would have been 17 or 18 in 1968. Since it is now 1983 or 84, which is sixteen years later, Face is supposedly 32,33, or 34, right? Let's say the Bells were freshmen when he was a senior. That would make them about 30. No girl group is going to hit it big at 30 if they're just starting out.

[sidney]

He definitely drives out of a nicer area into a more condensed one. Their apartment isn't in a fancy, ritzy area.

BA following this car is like a giant neon sign following him. Kid isn't that smart. Look in your rear view occasionally, Kid!


I was wondering why the bad guys put a tracer on the kid's car if they were just going to follow him anyhow. But it does look like the bad guys are following farther back (not like BA) and could lose track of him.

[sidney]

L literally laughed out loud as Face taking a little bit of fire power to cover them included him putting a bunch of guns in a paper bag. The big gun was totally not hidden, either. It was completely visible out the top of the bag.

[sidney]

She was hiding out there. That wasn't her apartment. It was a little old lady's.

The rest of the girls are coming by car from Vegas.

BA recognized Charlotte King and even Hannibal knew she was the lead singer of the Bells. So they had some notoriety. Face said he'd seen them in concert.


Looks like BA flirted a little when they first pulled up.


The girls are confused. They're scared. BA tells them they're in trouble. They ask where Charlotte is, then Face says they found another one and Hannibal urgently orders them all out of the car. They're shaken. They're definitely confused.

They are currently being mistreated and abused by their record label. The one girl said the record label takes 90% of their pay. They were just told that someone tried to kidnap Charlotte. I believe they are definitely scared.

I 100% believe at this point in the episode that they are not even thinking about seducing any member of the team for power because that's what they do as performers. They are VICTIMS at this point. Let's see what happens as we continue watching.



Look at their stances. They are scared.

[sidney]

Charlotte has just said that they are performing at a benefit for a charity they've supported for years. That makes me think they are more established as a performing act.

Hannibal said they'd made the dollar arrangements later. It's not a free gig. But here they are, being taken for 90% of what they're making, and the team is going to charge them? I hope the dollar arrangements he's going to make isn't very much. Maybe he'll get it out of the bad guy like he can do.

Okay, one of the Bells just said, "So, what's your name?" I wonder if that's supposed to be flirtatious? Maybe. Face looks overjoyed at the attention. Charlotte said 'Hi' flirtatiously to BA. And now a third Bell is introducing herself. And Murdock says, "As soon as I find out who I am, you'll be the first to know, Jenny." The writers have paired them up at this point. That was really forced.

*IF* I was looking for reasons to believe they use their celebrity and sexuality to manipulate the guys, this would be proof of that. They were scared one moment, Hannibal brings up money, and now they all pick a guy and flirtatiously introduce themselves?

However, it wasn't anything more than introducing themselves with smiles. Murdock's tone of voice was the most sultry.

In fact, Hannibal is talking to them, and Murdock looks like a serial killer or something, staring at the girls like this:



BA *could* be checking out Charlotte at this angle, and Face is the only one looking normal.

[sidney]

Oh my gosh.
I'm sorry.
I love our guys. I love them so much.
But why would those beautiful young girls be interested in these three? I'm laughing so hard, I started to cry.

[sidney]

Was there no paparazzi in the 80s? I'm going to google that right now.

Yes, there were. It wasn't to the degree of today, but there were. If the Bells were so famous they were 'powerful' and 'used to using people (men) to get what they want', then I'm sure they'd have someone following them.

Plot Hole.
The Bells would have already had contracts. If they didn't already have a manager, this record company taking 90% of their sales and income would already have stipulations in their contracts for everything Face just said they signed to them. There's no way they wouldn't. Even unsuccessful musical performers have songs and such controlled by a contract. By signing this 'contract' with Hannibal, it's like they were free agents. If they were free agents, they wouldn't be in the mess they're in.

They had records from 1980 - 1984.
They could very well be in their 30s. They could very well have gone to school with Face.

What time is it?
9:46.
Then you have 'til 9:47. That gives you about 40 seconds to get the spit off your chin and stop breathing through your mouth.

haha.... I love Hannibal and his insults.



HA! Face just said it must be the cologne Hannibal is wearing. That's on topic with another thread. Just wanted to point that out.


Face: Ah... The only things I like about this case so far are the clients.
Murdock: You're right, Faceman. They look great. They sing great, but they (said creepily) LOOK great.
BA: Yeah Man.
Hannibal: Now, c'mon guys, you all know the rule about clients.
Face: Yes, it seems to me there was a some kind of silly rule about clients, what was that? Oh, yeah! Ah... Be sure to save all expense vouchers. Wasn't that it Hannibal?
Hannibal: We never mess around with our clients. It muddies the atmosphere; it distorts our thinking. It is dangerous.
Face: That rule!
BA: Hannibal is right. We can't mess with these ladies.
Face: Ah... C'mon Guys! Rules were made to be broken!
Hannibal: Noses are also made to be broken, right, Face?
Face: Yeah, right, you can count on me, Hannibal.

At this point, the girls have done nothing more than introduce themselves. NOTHING MORE.
The men have to talk about controlling themselves here. I'm inferring that they believe they *can* mess around with these women, and they are making themselves control themselves. The women have no choice in the matter.