Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 12, 2023 15:44:36 GMT -5
In another thread, Sidney wrote this about Kelly: "But she's made out to be a huge deal for him [i.e., Murdock]. A very special love interest." This got me thinking - what other characters in the series, if any, are made out to be a huge deal for members of the team or "very special love interests" for them? Or was it only Kelly because she was played by Dwight's real-life wife? I think of Maggie as one made out to be a special love interest for Hannibal. And I guess there was Leslie for Face. Would you consider Rena also a special love interest for Face? And what about for BA - were any of the women they sort of paired him up with considered special love interests for him? I certainly felt like Kelly was being set up to be special for him... as if we were going to see her again, and then we didn't. Maybe they meant that to happen and it didn't, for some reason? After all, he gets all tongue-tied around her (which we don't see with him and any other woman), she actually knows about the VA and shows up there, etc. (But I'm sure to an extent, yes, the "special" feeling was because of the extra chemistry even if it may not have been intentional.) In addition, much of the episode is devoted to their relationship, and I think she's the only woman that makes one of them threaten bad guys... But what's with this Erica lady? She's the one who turns out to be special-- she's the only one he's with across several episodes (she's first mentioned in "Family Reunion" and then actually shows up on screen several episodes later {yet another reason Murdock in "Spy Who..." feels scuzzy, because a couple episodes later we meet Erica, so we know he was involved with someone when that whole Logan Ross thing went on)}. But I never figured out what was so special about her that she had longevity and was apparently the closest to being "the one" that we've ever seen him (or any of the guys) with (especially since "Family Reunion" is almost ambiguous about her-- first it's said she's his girlfriend, then it's said she's just his neighbor-slash-petsitter, but then later he brings her up again as if she's his girlfriend). Unless it was just supposed to illustrate that now he's a "free man" and can have an actual lasting relationship with a woman? (Because before, how was that going to work? You tell your friends and family that you're seeing a great guy... who lives in a mental hospital? You go on "dates" with him in the VA mess {unless you or Face can bust him out}? Watch the hospital staff give you the side-eye every time you show up to visit because they think you're taking advantage of a very-mentally-ill dude?) But, does Erica know "who" he is? As in, does she know about the team and all that, or is he keeping that from her, too? At least Kelly-- and other women the guys have met on a job-- would... (then again, the episode with the fake A-Team has shown us that pretty much everyone in the guys' lives know who they are, so... maybe she does.) I totally 'ship Maggie and Hannibal, but I never felt she was shown to be especially special for him. Yeah, she does show up in a later episode, but only because they get into a snag and need her; there didn't seem to be anything between them at that time, nor any indication that they'd seen/talked to each other since "Black Day"... I don't think BA had any 'special' ones. He was set up with a lot of girls, but never did I think there was one that was meant to be a very serious soul-mate type of love interest. I didn't think so, either, which is too bad, because I would've liked to see that for him. (For some reason, I could see it being a "thing" with B.A. having had The One Who Got Away... I'm not sure why. I guess he sort of had that with... which was the first woman they show him having a thing for, when she says she wishes he could stay and he can't? It might've been cute if they'd kind of kept up that theme-- and might illustrate just how lonely of lives the guys might lead.) Jody Joy feels like she was meant to be another one for Murdock. I didn't think Jody Joy was meant to be serious. She was 'fun' for Murdock. I never got that they wanted him to be serious with her at all. I didn't even feel like she was his type (besides the fact that I disliked her, anyway) and I was surprised he ended up with her at all. AHHHHH! Lisa! The blind girl. She was another one that Face had a special relationship with. I think that was WASTE 'EM. I don't know if they had as serious a relationship as him and Rina, but there was always this thing about her not being able to see his good looks... He was softer with her. I didn't think he'd scam her, which he did with all the other women, even Rina. Oh yes. She was the only one he promised to contact again later (I wonder if he ever did...). Plus, she was a departure from Face's usual pretty-but-useless types-- she was pretty, but, Face going for a woman with a disability? Good for him; I hate to say it, but normally he's not that un-shallow. (Although I have to admit-- Rina-- Face going for a woman with a kid-- was also very uncharacteristic.)
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 14, 2023 10:24:01 GMT -5
I never once thought about Erica being important to Murdock. Maybe it's just because she was in Season 5. It's hard to make sense of anything from that season.
I liked Jody Joy for Murdock only because I liked her. She was fun. She had an interesting backstory and they made her something. It was a ridiculous something, but she was a cutie. She was fun. She made Murdock feel good about himself. She was good for him as a fling. I hope they still hang out. I don't imagine they were ever serious but maybe they still communicate somehow. Maybe he goes and sees her shows once in a while. I can see her smiling to him from the stage... I like that non-ending for them.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 14, 2023 18:09:15 GMT -5
I did not like Erica. No offense to the actress. I just didn't like the character and thought that this was a very wasted idea. I wish that if they had to give Murdock a season 5 girlfriend, it could have been the woman he worked with at the pizza place. I liked her and could have seen her and Murdock together.
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 14, 2023 19:39:26 GMT -5
See, I would have said she *was* Erica. I so don't know Season 5 like I should.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 14, 2023 20:28:29 GMT -5
Erica was someone Murdock worked with at a restaurant, but not *that* restaurant. She came earlier in the season. (And I actually find that aspect a bit weird anyway, that she just... randomly shows up as a coworker {though I guess we can assume she was the one who got him the job}, and is on-screen for like a minute total.) I didn't see enough of her to like or dislike her... all I know is that she was the only one who lasted-- for any of them, actually (and that the two of them were smarmy, lol). That was the only thing that made her "special"-- but I think that in itself makes her very special. So, if you're just going to casually throw that in there... give us more of her so we can see both why you put it in and why she's lasting for Murdock. (Of course, that situation has a huge potential to turn bad... you're dating someone who lives in your building *and* is a coworker... must be awkward for nearly every aspect of your life if it ends badly...)
But I, too, think that if they were going to show Murdock with someone, they could've done more with it (like the thing I mentioned that he can actually have a relationship now, like, making that more clear... and they could've done a better job choosing a woman for him-- I could see him with someone who's shown to be smart {like him} and fun/with a sense of humor {can deal with him}, but also down-to-earth {and grounds him}... and really show that he found someone who was a good complement to him. It sort of shows potential for Murdock and his life going forward, you know? Even better if we can see that she knows about the team and their whole gig, and that the team also knows and approves of her).
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 15, 2023 3:03:53 GMT -5
It's hard to accept anything in Season 5. I think I block it out because it was so awful. Kind of like a trauma defense. So much of it was out-of-character for everyone. And the inclusion of Frankie drives me crazy. Katia, I write this kind-of fanfiction that's all based around a relationship for Murdock. It's kind of a lovely escape from real life thing I do. But as much as I would like to think his 'true love' would be someone of substance, I even admit that he would more likely be with a Kelly. All of them would. Or eternal bachelors with <<gross>> someone barely older than eighteen years old in a bikini. I'm feeling a little sad tonight, so I'm admitting that my heroes were chauvinistic. They weren't the perfect ideal that my heart wants them to be.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Mar 15, 2023 10:30:51 GMT -5
See, I would have said she *was* Erica. I so don't know Season 5 like I should. Same here. All the times I have watched the show, I thought she was Erica too.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 15, 2023 17:55:31 GMT -5
No, she was not Erica, but I don't remember her name. Erica worked at more of a grease pit I think. I just remember her coming into a place where Murdock was down on the ground, apparently cleaning something. And I think that she may have called him "Honey" or some little lovey-dovey pet name like that.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 15, 2023 22:16:26 GMT -5
No, she was not Erica, but I don't remember her name. Erica worked at more of a grease pit I think. I just remember her coming into a place where Murdock was down on the ground, apparently cleaning something. And I think that she may have called him "Honey" or some little lovey-dovey pet name like that. I don't remember her name either... drawing a blank. Yeah, I got the impression that the place he and Erica worked was a little diner type place. She called him "honey" and they had a dorky little kissyface moment about sharing a milkshake later or something. (I think I literally rolled my eyes. But unfortunately, I don't think I'd put it past Murdock to be smarmy... but I admit that that's pretty much the sole reason Erica rubs me the wrong way... smarm isn't my thing. At least, not public smarm.)
ETA for a part I forgot: But... for all that Erica is a long-lasting relationship... the other guys are only just now meeting her? I mean, I don't know how long it's implied that the two have been together-- not sure how much time is supposed to have passed between the two episodes-- but is this another of those "nobody hangs out with Murdock outside of jobs" things? (I'm still not clear on whether the four of them actually do anything together ever or not.) It's hard to accept anything in Season 5. I think I block it out because it was so awful. Kind of like a trauma defense. So much of it was out-of-character for everyone. And the inclusion of Frankie drives me crazy. When I write, I pretty much ignore S5. I usually really like to be true to canon, but sometimes I just... can't. (I went that way with some stuff in Tron fandom, too...) It's hard to accept anything in Season 5. I think I block it out because it was so awful. Kind of like a trauma defense. So much of it was out-of-character for everyone. And the inclusion of Frankie drives me crazy. Katia, I write this kind-of fanfiction that's all based around a relationship for Murdock. It's kind of a lovely escape from real life thing I do. But as much as I would like to think his 'true love' would be someone of substance, I even admit that he would more likely be with a Kelly. All of them would. Or eternal bachelors with <<gross>> someone barely older than eighteen years old in a bikini. I'm feeling a little sad tonight, so I'm admitting that my heroes were chauvinistic. They weren't the perfect ideal that my heart wants them to be. We had little enough to see of Kelly that I'm okay with sort of filling in some stuff in my headcanon that she actually could've been cool if given the chance. I have to admit she still was my favorite of most of the women he's shown with, which could partly be romantic-fangirl-aw-she's-really-his-wife bias, but thinking back, nobody he was with was that great. Honestly? I thought his cutest interaction was with the punk-rocker girl in "There Goes The Neighborhood" (was her name Stevie Faith or something?). I honestly thought the two of them were being set up to hook up with all their cute little inside jokes. (I liked her a lot as a character, though not necessarily for him because she was so much younger, but I probably would've had fun hanging out with her.)
Or eternal bachelors with <<gross>> someone barely older than eighteen years old in a bikini. I'm feeling a little sad tonight, so I'm admitting that my heroes were chauvinistic. They weren't the perfect ideal that my heart wants them to be. They were, but... it was also a sign of the times. And... a lot of guys even in modern shows are chauvinistic. I admit I've never quite understood the "chauvinistic" thing, though. I mean, I guess the guys were supposed to be thought of those badass, "women want them, men want to be them" types, but... I dunno, I don't see them that way. They kick ass and take names, but they just seem like normal guys to me, so the whole "hot women flock to them" aspect always seemed a bit odd. Face is supposed to be the ladies' man, but even he's somewhat awkward (which has always bugged me... I want a guy who's supposed to be smooth and charming, to actually be smooth and charming...). Hannibal is snarky and likes being in monster movies. B.A. is cranky and quirky. Murdock is... well, Murdock. I didn't really see any of them as being the kind of guys women are supposed to go ga-ga over as if they were James Bond or something, so why they had them acting like they were (and why, from the little I've heard, some of them thought they were IRL), I don' t know.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 15, 2023 23:29:29 GMT -5
Somehow I double-posted when I meant to edit...
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Mar 16, 2023 9:39:52 GMT -5
No, she was not Erica, but I don't remember her name. Erica worked at more of a grease pit I think. I just remember her coming into a place where Murdock was down on the ground, apparently cleaning something. And I think that she may have called him "Honey" or some little lovey-dovey pet name like that. I thought Erica WAS the girl where he was laying down. That's in the last episode isn't it? I thought that girl was Erica. I guess I don't really remember another one.
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 16, 2023 10:07:34 GMT -5
Oh. I never even considered Stevie Faith for Murdock. That does seem a little creepy because she was so young. I'm very closed-minded about huge age gaps. I'll admit it. And she was this playful, young rock star. If she and Murdock had a thing, I wouldn't like that at all. At least Kelly is more his age.
Stockwell is really the only thing in Season 5 that is in my story. Stockwell is probably the most important character in my story because he's the ultimate bad guy. My story is an origin story that starts before Murdock even goes to Vietnam. I write with the point of view that Murdock and Stockwell knew each other before the court martial. I've always felt that there was more history there. Otherwise, I ignore season 5, too. But I'm not too strict with canon anymore. Over time, it's just my story, not ATeam fan fiction. For example, I've kept Ray Brenner alive. I write him a lot in Vietnam and in the 70s and he's so wonderful. When I got to the 80s and 90s, I wrote him alive. I couldn't lose him. So I guess I totally ignore canon that he died in Season 1.
Hannibal and Face scam a lot, so many of the young girls think they can get something out of that relationship. I think that's how they can be so successful with the bikini babes. BA is very handsome and heroic. So I think the girls that are interested in him are actually interested. As long as he hides the over-the-top anger from them, he'd be very attractive.
Murdock doesn't usually have the love interest. The girl from OUT-OF-TOWNERS liked his sense of humour, that was obvious. Dominique was using him. Jody Joy was just up for anything. I guess maybe the creepiest love interest would be the Belles. Where it was like they each *HAD* to choose one of the guys to like and they were pretty young girls.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 16, 2023 23:04:07 GMT -5
No, she was not Erica, but I don't remember her name. Erica worked at more of a grease pit I think. I just remember her coming into a place where Murdock was down on the ground, apparently cleaning something. And I think that she may have called him "Honey" or some little lovey-dovey pet name like that. I thought Erica WAS the girl where he was laying down. That's in the last episode isn't it? I thought that girl was Erica. I guess I don't really remember another one. No... Erica was a blonde, whereas IIRC, the one in the Italian restaurant had brown hair. Erica looked closer to Murdock's age; the other one was younger. And definitely different restaurants. But I can't remember which episode we see her in. I know it was after "Spy Who..." because I remember part of the reason I was pissed off about the Dominique thing is that we then see in a later episode that he's still with Erica. Maybe "Gray Team"? (So yeah, technically the last episode, but not the "last" episode to air, with a different restaurant.) But now *I'm* getting confused... Oh. I never even considered Stevie Faith for Murdock. That does seem a little creepy because she was so young. I'm very closed-minded about huge age gaps. I'll admit it. And she was this playful, young rock star. If she and Murdock had a thing, I wouldn't like that at all. At least Kelly is more his age. No, I wouldn't have wanted them together. But I honestly thought their interaction was adorable-- but it also could've been adorable in a "big brother/little sister" or "just friends" sort of way. It's just that at the time, I really thought they were being set up for a hookup. Stockwell is really the only thing in Season 5 that is in my story. Stockwell is probably the most important character in my story because he's the ultimate bad guy. My story is an origin story that starts before Murdock even goes to Vietnam. I write with the point of view that Murdock and Stockwell knew each other before the court martial. I've always felt that there was more history there. Otherwise, I ignore season 5, too. But I'm not too strict with canon anymore. Over time, it's just my story, not ATeam fan fiction. For example, I've kept Ray Brenner alive. I write him a lot in Vietnam and in the 70s and he's so wonderful. When I got to the 80s and 90s, I wrote him alive. I couldn't lose him. So I guess I totally ignore canon that he died in Season 1. I've put Ray into a short little Vietnam bit, but not done anything else with him. I should. BA is very handsome and heroic. So I think the girls that are interested in him are actually interested. As long as he hides the over-the-top anger from them, he'd be very attractive. Oh, yes. B.A. is badass but a sweetie and a softie at heart. I think he wouldn't take crap from a woman/let her treat him badly, but he also wouldn't treat her badly. And I could see B.A. liking strong women. I keep wanting to write someone nice for him. Murdock doesn't usually have the love interest. The girl from OUT-OF-TOWNERS liked his sense of humour, that was obvious. Dominique was using him. Jody Joy was just up for anything. I guess maybe the creepiest love interest would be the Belles. Where it was like they each *HAD* to choose one of the guys to like and they were pretty young girls. He doesn't, though he actually does more often than I would guess, considering what he's like. There's the one when they're in New York pretending to have a TV repair shop (I think that was "Out-of-Towners")... there's one that Face was going for but she ended up going out with Murdock because he had tickets to the ballet... Dominique, as you said, was fake... there's Kelly, and Jody Joy, and Erica. And I think that's all of them. I guess maybe the creepiest love interest would be the Belles. Where it was like they each *HAD* to choose one of the guys to like and they were pretty young girls. Yeah. I've... not been ready to post about that episode yet, though I definitely have Opinions. But yeah, it was so convenient that they all happened to line up where each of the girls liked one of the guys, and luckily the same guy who was interested in her, and...
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 17, 2023 17:37:20 GMT -5
The woman who worked with Murdock at the Italian restaurant was Gina, and I think it was her dad that owned the restaurant.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 17, 2023 17:40:20 GMT -5
No, she was not Erica, but I don't remember her name. Erica worked at more of a grease pit I think. I just remember her coming into a place where Murdock was down on the ground, apparently cleaning something. And I think that she may have called him "Honey" or some little lovey-dovey pet name like that. I thought Erica WAS the girl where he was laying down. That's in the last episode isn't it? I thought that girl was Erica. I guess I don't really remember another one. Yes, it was Erica when Murdock was laying down on the floor. When I wrote "she was not Erica," I was referring to Gina, the one at the Italian restaurant. Erica worked at the place that I think was called the Puppy Platter.
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