amyk
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Post by amyk on Jun 10, 2021 19:15:28 GMT -5
Also, if I remember correctly (which may or may not be correct...), it seems that the team had the car back at the end instead of the whiskey truck. So someone must have been able to trade the truck back for the car. Maybe the guy was happy that he got the truck repaired for free by the team so maybe he just let them make the trade then.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Jun 30, 2023 21:18:01 GMT -5
And the one scene where BA calls Murdock a stupid fool when the bottles fly over the wall - I contend that BA was the stupid one - he clearly sees Murdock put the box down there so why did he activate the catapult at that time? Totally BA's fault I always thought that was kind of the point... B.A.'s being totally hypocritical... he even sort of mocks Face in the scene where he is making fun of the “cheap” jewelry that Face gave to Leslie. It’s pretty obvious that that “cheap piece of jewelry” meant a great deal to Face. That bugged me a bit, too. I mean, Face was young back then (although this is Face, and we assume he was a con artist even then... surely he could've done better, lol). I mean, way to rain on a guy's parade about something he gave to someone he really cared about. (Then again, Face is worried enough about appearances that I could see him being the kind of guy who'd insist on giving a woman something that at least *looks* high-end and expensive, so maybe that's what B.A. is razzing him about.) I hate Leslie. I don't think she's a good person at all. She used Face back in the day and used him in the 'present'. I just thought the whole situation was super-weird. You're in a relationship with someone that's so serious that you're about to get engaged, but you don't tell them you've spent your life wanting to be a nun? I mean, why even get involved with them, then? And then to just suddenly ghost them. Wow. She was real mature, clearly. *eye roll* She totally knew what she was doing when she sent the pin and the letter. She didn't outwardly ask for help either, which make me think her manipulative. I don't think she was worried it would be intercepted. She knew it would get to him just fine. Absolutely she knew. Otherwise, why not let sleeping dogs lie? I mean, she chose the exact moment she was in trouble to decide to return that stuff? Why did she keep that pin for so long, by the way? She should have returned it long before this happened. It was a trophy. I mean, I guess I like the "romantic" explanation that even though she had other plans for her life than getting married, she really did love him and kept it for that reason. But... if I kept a memento like that for so long, I don't think I'd admit to it, unless the person already knew. I love the final shot of Face putting on his hat and winking at the girl. That's how I approach women now. That part strikes me as very Indiana Jones... Finally, why is the orphanage in the middle of nowhere? How do you adopt kids that way? (My wife said that maybe they were just their to be taken care of out of the way because it was unlikely they would be adopted. Dark). Unless maybe they were kids who might have other family members come out of the woodwork, so this was a place for them to live until that might happen? Or, they're kids from that area, living there until transferred elsewhere. Or, maybe if someone is interested, they either come to the orphanage to meet the kid, or the kid is taken somewhere else to meet the prospective family.
But I imagine that in poor areas of a country, adoption might be unlikely, yeah. I don't know if international adoption was popular back then. I mean, the show implies that even in the U.S., a lot of kids go until adulthood without being adopted (Face, and I got the impression he wasn't the only one). Also, I wonder if there are some cultures that really aren't into the concept of adoption at all... even some people here can be sort of weird about it, after all.
I love this episode. I don't care about the inconsistencies. I'm not sure the orphans have much of a chance of being adopted. For one thing, I'm not sure how popular adoption is within some other countries, i.e. if Ecuadorians would be looking to adopt kids from an orphanage. And I also don't know how popular international adoption was back in the 1980s, or at least adopting from Ecuador. Anyway, I think your wife may be correct and not sure these kids were really even up for adoption. Ha. I should've just kept reading... Do you feel that the thing that keeps flipping them before they get over the wall gets repetitive? A wee bit, but I think the repetition (complete with the sound effect) was supposed to be the humor? The suggestion that Face's womanising ways are because he had his heart broken and has never got over Lesley is interesting. I'm not sure that's the only reason because even after this episode he doesn't stop enjoying the company of the ladies! I honestly thought it was a bit of a weird explanation, but, I guess it's okay. Just, the idea that Face was hurt once, a long time ago when young, and sort of wrote off women/relationships forever is... I guess not the most mature reaction? It might have been quite fun to see Amy confront Lesley about it in the episode, Face kind of forgave her too easily. I know he loved Lesley, but I don't think he really showed her how much she'd hurt him all those years ago.
I dunno, I didn't see it as Amy's battle to fight, especially since Face didn't want to fight it, either. I assumed there'd been enough water under the bridge at this point that he got over it/it doesn't hurt really acutely anymore.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 3, 2023 22:13:52 GMT -5
From my perspective, Leslie was presumably already contemplating becoming a nun even before she met Face, although we don't know exactly when this idea entered her mind. But Face was charming enough to her that she was very tempted to give up becoming a nun. She may have been so smitten with Face and flattered by his attention to her that she kept putting off telling him about the nun issue. And then if you put something off long enough, it becomes harder to then go back and say "oh, by the way, I'm thinking of becoming a nun..." She also may have felt guilty that she was even tempted by Face. So instead of her getting up the courage to just flat out tell him that she thought she should be a nun, she made the decision to just leave. She likely knew that Face would be able to talk her out of entering the convent, but she also likely knew in her heart that was what she was meant to do. So what she did may not have been the best, but in the moment, I think she felt that was what she had to do. I think she didn't treat Face right in this instance, but I think she also was sorry for that for years. It's easy to sit here and think "well, I would have done this or that," but I just know that I've made enough mistakes in my life that I guess I have sympathy for Leslie. There are lots of things that, looking back, I wish I would have handled differently. But once things are set in motion sometimes it is hard to think clearly.
I also think Leslie absolutely knew what she was doing in sending the fraternity pin back to Face, and I think she did deep down know that he would realize she was in trouble and come to help her. If nothing else, that at least says that she didn't think that Face would be so angry with her that he would not come to help her when she needed his help. And he proved her right in that respect.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 5, 2023 11:55:47 GMT -5
From my perspective, Leslie was presumably already contemplating becoming a nun even before she met Face, although we don't know exactly when this idea entered her mind. But Face was charming enough to her that she was very tempted to give up becoming a nun. She may have been so smitten with Face and flattered by his attention to her that she kept putting off telling him about the nun issue. And then if you put something off long enough, it becomes harder to then go back and say "oh, by the way, I'm thinking of becoming a nun..." She also may have felt guilty that she was even tempted by Face. So instead of her getting up the courage to just flat out tell him that she thought she should be a nun, she made the decision to just leave. She likely knew that Face would be able to talk her out of entering the convent, but she also likely knew in her heart that was what she was meant to do. So what she did may not have been the best, but in the moment, I think she felt that was what she had to do. I think she didn't treat Face right in this instance, but I think she also was sorry for that for years. It's easy to sit here and think "well, I would have done this or that," but I just know that I've made enough mistakes in my life that I guess I have sympathy for Leslie. There are lots of things that, looking back, I wish I would have handled differently. But once things are set in motion sometimes it is hard to think clearly. I also think Leslie absolutely knew what she was doing in sending the fraternity pin back to Face, and I think she did deep down know that he would realize she was in trouble and come to help her. If nothing else, that at least says that she didn't think that Face would be so angry with her that he would not come to help her when she needed his help. And he proved her right in that respect. Great analysis, Amy! I agree with all of that and it really shows Face for the kind of man he is.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Jul 6, 2023 20:13:14 GMT -5
Oh yes, I'm sure this is something she wanted from a young age, it sounds like-- religious callings aren't usually a spur-of-the-moment thing. I just find it hard to believe that not once, in a close relationship, did the topic ever come up of what she wanted to do with her life. Not once?? I mean, a religious vocation is an even bigger deal than a job, because it's not something you do only from 9-5, five days a week-- it is an entire way of life. It seems to me that'd be something you'd know about someone pretty easily, let alone if you're best friends or planning to get married or whatever. And, I mean, Face grew up Catholic... it's something he would've understood.
So... how did this work? She invented some other future career that she wanted? Just wouldn't talk about it? What was she majoring in, I wonder.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 6, 2023 22:44:16 GMT -5
It does seem like, if Leslie and Face were really deep friends, that the topic would have come up. But maybe they both were pretending to be people that they really weren't. I wonder how Face presented himself. Maybe their relationship was similar the Rena / Face relationship, where they were both pretending to be people that they weren't. We don't really have a good timeline for how long they were dating. But it seems like they must have been dating a significant amount of time.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Jul 13, 2023 22:06:05 GMT -5
That kind of kills the "she was the love of his life" idea, though, if the whole relationship was fake...
I guess we're probably just supposed to not think about it that deeply... I have the tendency to expect makers of movies/TV shows to make it make as much sense as real life, which probably isn't... well, realistic. I think that as a big fan, and on fan sites, it's hard not to do that sometimes if you want to sort of "get into" the world. We had that problem on another fan site I was on... every so often we'd stop and be like, "... you know the reason this doesn't make sense is because the writers just didn't think about it THAT much, because they didn't expect us to, either..." It's a different kind of suspension of belief, I suppose. (Always a difficulty especially when the fandom is sci-fi or action-based. You're like, "I'm fine with believing that these guys go around spraying automatic rifle fire without hitting anything important and that cars and trucks and helicopters can crash without anyone getting even a scrape and that they never, ever, ever lose, but the part I can't believe in this franchise is that Leslie never told Face what she wanted to be when she grew up...")
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 14, 2023 23:47:05 GMT -5
And who would have thought that 40 years after the series aired, we crazed fans would be trying to understand the relationship between one of the main characters and a "guest character" that really only figured overall into the whole series in a relatively minor way? Yeah, I doubt that the writers really cared to expound on why Leslie never told Face about this and that they thought it was really that important. In addition, they were cranking out episodes (and also I think for other SJC series) at a rapid pace. It was not like they were trying to write the next academy award winning screenplay....
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Jul 18, 2023 10:15:33 GMT -5
I think part of it could be too that there might have been deleted scenes we just didn't get to see or have access to like we do now. It might have explained away some of the confusion or angst we feel at the whole situation.
Overall, I try not to think into the intricacies too much because I do enjoy the episode, the back story, etc.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Jul 18, 2023 21:54:58 GMT -5
One thing I love about this forum is that we can hash out the intricacies, whether or not they ever existed even on the actual show! It's pretty interesting how differently fans may view not only this episode, and the character of Leslie, but all the episodes and characters. Keeps the forum interesting, especially when we get new members who may bring different thoughts to these matters.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Jul 19, 2023 18:03:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I know there have been times before when we've wondered if something that doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense because there was a deleted scene or something that might've made it make sense.
Something I suspected often with Tron: Legacy was that the writers had in mind a certain backstory/headcanon for a scene or occurrence or piece of dialog that they forgot to share with the audience (explain/make explicit). That movie, IMO, was rather egregious for doing it in a few spots, but I'm sure other writers suffer from it as well from time to time.
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Post by hannibal1295 on Sept 16, 2023 4:27:03 GMT -5
I agree with all of you, I just watched this episode maybe 2 weeks ago and I remember that I found this episode a little confusing because I did not understand why she disappeared without telling Face anything...at least Face would have known where she was going...
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Sept 16, 2023 22:03:03 GMT -5
I still think she was afraid that if she told Face, he would be able to talk her out of it and deep down she knew she was meant to become a nun, but she knew she would not be able to withstand the temptation (to not join the convent) if she told Face about it.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Sept 17, 2023 9:13:15 GMT -5
That's my best guess as well, though surely she could've sent him a letter later, or had her friend tell him. (I'm hoping Face wouldn't be such a jerk as to try to talk her out of it then.)
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Post by Pico Bob on Oct 29, 2023 6:08:42 GMT -5
I think the biggest plot hole in the ep is that tunnel in the nuns cellar. The bad guys know it exists but dont block it up. Face and Murdock easily escape using the tunnel yet the team instantly discount the passageway as an option to re-enter the compound. Instead we get the Trojan horse thing - which was great fun. The tunnel is then forgotten about.
The ep didn't need it. You could have had Face and Murdock using their wits to enter and leave the compound by climbing a wall, say. Hmm although then the story would need to explain why the whole team couldnt similarly climb up the wall. We wouldn't want to lose the Trojan horse sequence.
I will have to think about that one a bit more!
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