sidney
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Post by sidney on Nov 21, 2021 7:29:02 GMT -5
I got off on a tangent in my other thread, so I cut it and pasted it here.
Why was Maggie better than stupid Kelly? Kelly is only worshipped because fangirls are romantic and love the idea of Dwight and his wife being true love on the screen as well as in real life, and the idea is cute, I agree. But Kelly is a terrible character. In fact, I've always said she's more of a Face-girl than the perfect girl for Murdock. She was the undeveloped, unintelligent, pretty girl. She had a good actress playing her, but the good actress wasn't given anything to work with.
They could have done so much with her character and made her so much fun and so complicated. The nice/good girl who's so innocent she doesn't even think of herself as pretty thing was so boring. And I know some people argue that something terrible has happened to her and that's why she doesn't think she's pretty, but you don't get that at all. You don't see anything in her delivery of that line. Was she just so clueless that she didn't see herself as pretty? I saw it as false modesty. A less than intelligent effort to get Murdock to tell her she was pretty. Playing a game to get a compliment.
There are so many ways they could have improved the Kelly character. They could have worked more with her being a vet, for example. Wouldn't it have been great if she had more than one animal in her hospital? Maybe we witness her saving an animal's life, and *THAT* hooks Murdock more than her looks. Maybe the bad guys hurt the dog! Oh, that would have been awful, but no fear... Dr Kelly saves him. Tell me that wouldn't make Murdock fall head over heals at that point and show how competent Kelly is! Maybe we see her fighting off the bad guys when they go back for her. She tried to run... The many dogs in her hospital try to attack to protect her but are in their crates... She almost manages to escape... She hits one with, I don't know, a medical tool of some sort...
Instead of pretending she doesn't know who the Rolling Stones are, have her argue that another band is better. She could have said she listened to Pink Floyd more. Or she could have even said she likes Disco! It doesn't matter. But being so 'innocent' and 'clueless' made her empty.
Wow.
Empty.
All those years complaining about Kelly and I finally pinpointed why I don't like the character. She seems 'empty'.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Nov 21, 2021 17:26:53 GMT -5
That's a good analysis, Sidney. I think "empty" is a good word. It was like the writers had no idea how to find a girl for Murdock, who really clicked with her, so they left her kind of blank.
I do think seeing her in action as a vet would have been the way to Murdock's heart, especially after we see that scene in DEADLY MANEUVERS.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Nov 21, 2021 19:37:11 GMT -5
I still like Kelly. (Don't throw rocks at me.)I don't find her so empty or boring. Maybe I kind of relate to her. And I think she was probably so wrapped up in her schooling to become a vet and then trying to manage her own business that she probably didn't have much time to have a lot of outside interests. I didn't feel like she was fishing for a compliment from Murdock - for one thing, hadn't he already called her pretty, even if it was not a direct "you're pretty" sentence? But even if she was fishing for a compliment, that doesn't bother me.
I believe I saw the episode in its original run and that I loved it then. And I doubt that I knew she was married to Dwight in real life.
But I do think it could have been a good idea for her to be shown actually doing some more vet work. Maybe during the big chase scene when the bounty hunters are after Kelly's van, the bounty hunters could have run over a dog and then Kelly would have scooped up the dog before fleeing from them and taken it back to her clinic and saved it??
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Post by Morgan on Nov 22, 2021 14:39:41 GMT -5
Omg Sidney you are so right!!! And I love your ideas as to making her more interesting, at least for Murdock! Even I would have liked her had she saved an animal's life!!
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Nov 22, 2021 20:30:45 GMT -5
She's very attractive, so I do think Murdock would have thought she was cute. He kissed many girls during the series, so kissing her made sense. But she's made out to be a huge deal for him. A very special love interest. If we're meant to believe that, the character needs some substance.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 12, 2023 15:58:33 GMT -5
I guess I assumed she was intelligent since she's a vet-- dumb people don't usually make it through years of medical school. "Intelligent" plus "caring about animals" would've both been a huge attraction for Murdock right there. (Though it's true they don't really seem to portray her as smart, which is too bad.) And she's working for Murdock because they're awkward and cute together (though that's not quite so characteristic for Murdock).
As far as not thinking she's pretty-- she is pretty-ish, but IMO it's mostly because she has pretty eyes. Otherwise she's (again, IMO) pretty ordinary-looking. And I could see her being the sort of person who was sort of an awkward-looking "ugly duckling" when younger, so it wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't ever really given much attention from men* (also, I'm not sure how popular it was then for a woman in the medical field which might turn off some guys {especially if she was smart, dedicated to her job, medical schooling usually takes up a fair amount of a person's time, etc.}, and for some reason she struck me as a "solitary" type so maybe didn't have many dates, either) and thus wouldn't see herself as attractive. I honestly didn't see it as fishing for a compliment. Sometimes you call a spade a spade. I'm not pretty, and sometimes I feel like I have to act like I don't know that because if I mention it, someone is going to think I'm "fishing for a compliment" rather than stating a fact same as if I said "I'm medium height" or "I wear glasses." Heaven help a person if they ever acknowledge there's anything not-ideal about themself.
*I also kind of feel like there are some things in this episode that are Schultz/Fulton "inside history," and this has always felt like one of them to me, like, maybe it was an actual thing between the two of them in real life? (I have no idea who Wendy Fulton is, never having seen or heard of her before or since this episode, so I haven't a clue if she was a popular actress, considered attractive, etc.)
It's true they don't give us much of her personality. (But we don't get much of that for most of the female "guest/love interest" characters, so I don't see her as any different. I mean, it's implied Murdock was with that Erica for a long time, and she gets like one minute of screen time when we actually see her, and spends it being boringly cutesy. Even with Maggie Sullivan we're not given that much.) She was adorable, and it's true they could've done more, but I think her visiting Murdock at the end does show some character for her. And she was spunky enough to threaten him with a (fake) gun, had the foresight/quick thinking to not tell the bad guys about him even though she knew nothing about him. But you're right in that all the screen time she got, they could've had her "do" more.
I admit I was annoyed by her not knowing the Beatles sang Norwegian Wood, though I'm a big Beatles fan so that could just be me (if I'd been in the room, I would've been rolling my eyes so hard they'd be in danger of sticking that way). (I'm also a music fan, but maybe she's not; she could be an expert on art history, poetry, medical research, etc. instead though, for all we know.)
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Mar 13, 2023 11:02:31 GMT -5
Rereading this thread and I have to say that I still agree overall with sidney on some of the problems with her character in the episode.
However, I agree that she is likely smart, but maybe socially empty would be a better phrase? She might have anxiety about meeting new people, feeling more comfortable around animals.
Like Katia, I never found her anything more than average in the looks department. I think that could appeal to Murdock as well. (I don't think Face would have gone for her).
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 13, 2023 19:49:40 GMT -5
However, I agree that she is likely smart, but maybe socially empty would be a better phrase? She might have anxiety about meeting new people, feeling more comfortable around animals. Yes. I sort of got the impression that she and Murdock could be socially-awkward together, lol. Like Katia, I never found her anything more than average in the looks department. I think that could appeal to Murdock as well. (I don't think Face would have gone for her). Yeah. She's cute, but not model-pretty. I could see Murdock going for "cute."
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 14, 2023 10:04:46 GMT -5
Murdock is not socially-awkward. Murdock, on purpose, makes people feel uncomfortable. He is actually amazingly adept at understanding people and knowing when/where it's time to be crazy and when it's time to be as normal as possible. (This is why we continue the 'is he really crazy?' debate.)
Face's girls aren't always bombshells or models. He likes every girl... He had plenty of girls who were 'cute'. He had girls who I thought were actually kind of unattractive. He had single moms - who many playboys wouldn't even consider as a romantic partner. Face earnestly loves women.
Characters who are doctors can still be empty. Characters of any profession can be written void of personality. I don't think there's a correlation. Just writing that someone is a vet or a brain surgeon or some other impressive job doesn't suddenly make a character three-dimensional and interesting. In fact, this only made her a worse character because we had no evidence that she was a vet other than she had the sign. Once again, as I wrote in my original post, if there were more animals... A sick animal she had to treat... Something... It might have shown she was a competent vet and good at her job. Maggie treated BA. Immediately we understood she was competent at what she did.
What I'm looking for is quality writing. Which The A-Team *IS* capable of. Oh my gosh! We had some amazing ideas and dialogue and character building!
I stand by my original post. (Sometimes over the years I change my opinion, but I still feel the same.) Kelly had so much potential. The writers could have done even the simplest of things to make her amazing. Instead, it felt like no effort was put into making the episode/her character anything at all. It was a missed opportunity, and I still believe that today fans are just romanced by the fact that she's his real life wife and make it into more than it is.
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Post by HoudiniDerek on Mar 14, 2023 17:38:20 GMT -5
After reading Sidney's post, I am trying to think of a woman that held Face's interest that was not highly attractive. I believe her that there are some, but I am having trouble identifying them. Can anyone give me some examples?
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 14, 2023 18:01:35 GMT -5
What about the tow truck daughter who kept rebuffing Face's advances? I think she was cute, but not sure I consider her really pretty. And even Samantha in TIMBER! She seemed to me not to be the usual kind of woman that Face was attracted to.
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amyk
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Post by amyk on Mar 14, 2023 18:03:02 GMT -5
I could not have told you who sang Norwegian Wood....in fact, I have no idea what that sounds like nor could I have told you it was a song from the Beatles or Rolling Stones era.
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 14, 2023 19:46:01 GMT -5
Samantha in TIMBER was the first one I thought of when I said I found some kind of unattractive. I know that was mean of me, and I'm sorry for being so horrible. I shouldn't be judging women according to their looks. I just wanted to point out that they weren't all bombshells or super hot.
Even Markie Post wasn't a bombshell though. She was attractive, but ironically not supermodel attractive (ironic because she played a supermodel).
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sidney
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Post by sidney on Mar 14, 2023 19:48:40 GMT -5
I could not have told you who sang Norwegian Wood....in fact, I have no idea what that sounds like nor could I have told you it was a song from the Beatles or Rolling Stones era. Technically they'd be in the same era. I think. Lennon/McCartney wrote one of their first songs (I WANNA BE YOUR MAN) and the tabloids would fabricate a feud between the two bands, but the Beatles broke up before the 70s (circa '71) and I believe the Stones are still together, so maybe they aren't considered the same era... I Love the Beatles. I'm a huge fanatic.
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Katia
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Post by Katia on Mar 14, 2023 20:25:51 GMT -5
Murdock is not socially-awkward. Murdock, on purpose, makes people feel uncomfortable. He is actually amazingly adept at understanding people and knowing when/where it's time to be crazy and when it's time to be as normal as possible. (This is why we continue the 'is he really crazy?' debate.) Murdock as a normal course isn't that socially-awkward. But he comes across that way in this episode. Like I said, he's not normally all shy and tongue-tied around women... except this one. After reading Sidney's post, I am trying to think of a woman that held Face's interest that was not highly attractive. I believe her that there are some, but I am having trouble identifying them. Can anyone give me some examples? Let's face it... there aren't many women in this show who aren't attractive, period. What was the episode with the woman lawyer? She wasn't that attractive, and Face was into her. I was proud of him. She was average-looking, but she was cool, and Face liked her.
I could not have told you who sang Norwegian Wood....in fact, I have no idea what that sounds like nor could I have told you it was a song from the Beatles or Rolling Stones era. More than happy to introduce you! I could not have told you who sang Norwegian Wood....in fact, I have no idea what that sounds like nor could I have told you it was a song from the Beatles or Rolling Stones era. Technically they'd be in the same era. I think. Lennon/McCartney wrote one of their first songs (I WANNA BE YOUR MAN) and the tabloids would fabricate a feud between the two bands, but the Beatles broke up before the 70s (circa '71) and I believe the Stones are still together, so maybe they aren't considered the same era... I Love the Beatles. I'm a huge fanatic. The Stones got together a bit after the Beatles did, I believe, so they overlapped but weren't *exactly* on the same timeline. Close enough, though, and certainly close enough for the "Beatles or Stones?" debate (I don't think I need to tell you where I stand...).
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