When they were bad...

[sidney]

Once again, I need this for research.

When do you feel the team were criminals during the run of the show? Or even the bad guys?

[Katia]

Team as a whole, or as individuals okay too? And when you say "criminal," you mean laws actually broken, or just that they were shady?

Criminals or bad guys. Hm. There were definitely times I didn't agree with what they did. I'll have to go back over my notes to see if I have anything written down to jog my memory. I'll try to keep to stuff that could definitely be considered on the wrong side of ethics, rather than just good taste, like, I won't worry about things like "Hannibal is dating a woman who's *how* old??" or "are they seriously in blackface??"

Off the top of my head... the times they gave potential clients a hard time. Especially when they were kind of shady in expecting women to put themselves into dangerous situations just in order to contact the team. Obviously not criminal, just not very ethical, IMO.

I've always sort of given them the side-eye that they don't seem very concerned about collateral damage-- spraying automatic rifle fire indiscriminately, driving recklessly in crowded places, etc.  Could be literally criminal.

Obviously, any time they steal a plane. And probably any time they scam one, really, since it can sort of be like theft (like in the first episode). I don't count it when they steal/scam it from the bad guys, though. Probably environmentally not-cool whenever they crash one.  Literally criminal.

When they shoot up B.A.'s mom's apartment. Or probably a lot of places, actually (this one might be literally criminal).

Not to mention when they blow things up all over the place.

Okay, going through my notes now.

"Judgment Day"-- I can't remember exactly how this episode goes, but they endanger a whole cruise ship full of people just because B.A. won't fly.  There's another one, too, where they tell the bad guys to come meet them at a hospital-- again, endangering all those people.

Amy when she pulls the gun in "Beast from the Belly..." Again: literally criminal. I'm surprised I didn't talk about that in the thread from that episode. How does she avoid being arrested? I'm pretty sure it might be a federal offense to sort of hold aviation employees hostage....

"Family Reunion"-- I don't think you can just randomly bury people out in the middle of nowhere on your own (also literally criminal).

[amyk]

Pretty much everything they do is technically criminal, isn't it? For example, they can't legally have acquired all those weapons, could they?

I generally tend to be a pretty law-abiding citizen (even try to go the speed limit, although often find myself over....), so it is actually kind of strange how much I love this show and the team. I think I overlook all the criminal stuff they do because they are helping the oppressed and somehow I guess that justifies them doing all the criminal stuff to me. Also because they are "accused of a crime they didn't commit" (even though technically they did commit the bank robbery, so I never know if that is really "a crime they didn't commit" or if it is that way only because they did it under orders).

[Katia]

Apr 17, 2023 19:39:53 GMT -5 amyk said:

I generally tend to be a pretty law-abiding citizen (even try to go the speed limit, although often find myself over....), so it is actually kind of strange how much I love this show and the team. I think I overlook all the criminal stuff they do because they are helping the oppressed and somehow I guess that justifies them doing all the criminal stuff to me.

Yeah, I've often wondered, myself-- if I actually knew them, would many of the things they do bother me? 

And from another ethical standpoint, they're subverting the whole legal process (which you could perhaps argue would be a good thing, for those times when the real authorities' hands are tied by the law... or as a cop in one of my stories says re: the rumors he's heard about the team: "A known criminal element disappears... corruption taken care of... things we can't always touch...").  No due process and all that.

Apr 17, 2023 19:39:53 GMT -5 amyk said:

Also because they are "accused of a crime they didn't commit" (even though technically they did commit the bank robbery, so I never know if that is really "a crime they didn't commit" or if it is that way only because they did it under orders).

I think I've said before that this bugs me, that that was the thing they did where we're all supposed to be on their side for being innocent.  Seems to me they could've come up with something better-- something the team is doing goes wrong and thus they're considered criminals, or something they did came out looking like they did something wrong even though they didn't, or something like that.  I mean, why would robbing a bank do anything for "the war effort" that it would be justified?  (Is it ever explained why?  I can't remember.)  And I thought "I was just following orders" doesn't fly as an excuse...  (Or was it post-Vietnam that that stopped being an excuse?)

[amyk]

I've never really understood the whole bank job, but I think maybe the idea was that they would get all the money from the bank and break the Vietcong....was there only one bank in all Hanoi that held the VC money? I also wish that there had been a better "crime they didn't commit." Like if they had been accused from the beginning of the series of being traitors or something like that....or of murdering one of their superiors.

[Katia]

Apr 18, 2023 18:43:32 GMT -5 amyk said:

I've never really understood the whole bank job, but I think maybe the idea was that they would get all the money from the bank and break the Vietcong....was there only one bank in all Hanoi that held the VC money? I also wish that there had been a better "crime they didn't commit." Like if they had been accused from the beginning of the series of being traitors or something like that....or of murdering one of their superiors.

Yeah, seems it would be more sympathetic that way.

Apr 17, 2023 21:59:18 GMT -5 Katia said:

Yeah, I've often wondered, myself-- if I actually knew them, would many of the things they do bother me? 

While I was unable to sleep last night (I have insomnia issues), for some reason this thread popped into my head again.  Honestly, as much as I'd love to be like Amy (team sidekick), I do think that many of their antics would bug me.  The frequency of them destroying stuff is very high...

Maybe I need to start a thread to list all the good stuff they did too, though...

[amyk]

Yeah, I used to fantasize about being an A-TEAM sidekick or honorary member of the team, but if it was real life, I don't think I could really put up with all the stuff they do - lying, destruction, threatening, etc. - and I also don't want to even touch a gun, so I would be pretty useless to them! They would not even let me on the team.

[Katia]

I doubt I'd mind most of the lies and threats (especially to the bad guys), and I don't mind guns. Destroying stuff willy-nilly would bug me, as would the way they treat some of their clients (putting some in dangerous situations to meet them, giving them a hard time sometimes, etc.). I'm not sure how I'd feel about scams that went against innocent people-- cons can be fun, but really only if they're harmless or the people harmed are bad guys.

[Katia]

How about all the times they just... take off in a helicopter or airplane without any sort of tower clearance? Now, sometimes (especially in helicopters) they're in the middle of nowhere, but sometimes in planes they just... leave whenever they want. Now, this was the 80s and I'm sure airports didn't see the volumes or have the tight schedules they do now, but... wow, that still seems dangerous, when you have no idea what other planes are doing. Not criminal, just possibly dangerous.

[amyk]

I guess we are just to believe that Murdock is such a top-notch pilot that he would never endanger any other airplanes? Usually when they are leaving in a hurry, it seems they are leaving from some rather unpopulated airstrip.

[Katia]

Oh, I never thought of that. I always assumed they just didn't think we'd really think about it. But you're right, they could be trying to make an implication about Murdock. (Of course, I love our Murdock, but he's just not psychic to know what's coming out of the sky at any given moment...)

A lot of their takeoffs are in the middle of nowhere, but not always. How many times have they stolen a military plane (was it more than once?)? What about the time they flew out to B.A.'s mom and Murdock says "we're waiting on clearance" and B.A. barks, "Mama's waiting!" and Murdock says, "...and there it is."? (Of course, they may or may not have actually been waiting to hear from a tower, but I didn't get the impression they were in the middle of nowhere.) I'm trying to think of any shady landings... there was one where Murdock decides to put it down *right there* because B.A.'s coming to in the back, but I can't remember which episode or where they were landing.

[Katia]

I don't know if this counts for this thread, but... whenever the guys are shot, how do they get patched up? Like, you walk into a hospital with a gunshot wound, aren't they going to ask how you got it? (These days I know they're definitely going to call the cops if you present with a GSW, but I don't know what it was like back then. Still, seems they're going to be a bit suspicious even if they don't have any sort of mandatory-reporting-to-law-enforcement rules?)

(I mean, we know they bypass a hospital in "Black Day..." but do they always have some doctor on the side who's willing to fix them up and look the other way? In my headcanon they kind of use Maggie that way more than once, but there are other times one of them gets shot and we just don't know... {I guess when Face gets shot, maybe Stockwell has some connections, but what about the rest of the times? I guess one of the times Murdock gets shot is in "Sound of Thunder" though, so really the only time we have to think about is "Curtain Call"...} )

[amyk]

I don't think they generally get shot, though, and when they do, as long as it is not too severe, they may just patch each other up?

[Katia]

Well, there's B.A. in "Black Day," but we know how that goes. There's "Curtain Call"-- that would've been one for the hospital for sure, as well as "Without Reservations." Both nearly died. Murdock gets shot in "Sound of Thunder" but it seems like it's not severe (just grazed, maybe, though it almost seems like it goes through his shoulder), and that's in Vietnam, so maybe not as many questions asked (and depending where they are, maybe not that great of medical care anyway).

Not sure whether they get shot besides that (off-episode), though I imagine other injuries are common, but probably just about any other injury could be explaine away without involving law enforcement (except maybe being stabbed), even if they had to say they got in a fight or were attacked (just insist that you decline to make a report/press charges).

[HannibalSmith]

Pretty much everything the team does is criminal. How many assaults and counts of attempted murder could the team face for each episode where they punch, throw, or shoot at others? The team also commits a lot of traffic violations not limited to speeding, reckless driving, and attempted vehicular manslaughter.
I highly doubt that the team has proper documentation through the ATF for the M60 and other fully automatic weapons.
They impersonated law enforcement on numerous occasions (in West Coast Turnaround they even acknowledge this by insisting that they run "out of service" signs on their fake police car).
Face commits multiple larcenies in his scams. The team possesses illegal explosives on numerous occasions.
The list of criminal acts the team commits is too long to list!
Basically by the end of the series, the holdup of the Bank of Hanoi is the LEAST serious charge they would be facing!